Belay Device Friction Test | |
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This discussion is regarding: Belay Device Friction Test
"More than a dozen tube style belay devices are on the market. Each device is safe, at a similar price point, and lighter than a Big Mac. So the question is, what sets them apart?"
We put the top 12 devices on the market to the test. Belay Test Results.
Please leave feedback! I guarantee you we read it and similar to "Mythbusters" we will be doing "Revisted" tests after feedback is received.
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Playrugby88
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question... on the devices that have an high friction and a low friction mode(i.e. BD ATC GUIDE) what mode did you use?
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marks
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Playrugby88 said:
question... on the devices that have an high friction and a low friction mode(i.e. BD ATC GUIDE) what mode did you use? |
If the device had multiple friction modes, the high friction mode was used. You could argue that for dual friction devices we should have measured the lock-off mode in high friction mode and feed mode in low friction mode. My counter argument is that this setup is impossible during one belay / rappel making it an unrealistic setup.
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Ben20
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This test looks like it has some good info, but one factore is missing that I have not seen mentioned. No two ropes are the same. I think the strength of this test is to say which belay device would have more friction as compared to others. I would argue that if this test was done on more ropes with variouse amounts of wear and tear, applying the results in real life situations would be much more accurate. I'm curiouse to know the history of the section of rope used for this particular test.
From personal experience, belay devices are pretty finicky. They get worn down in different ways, plus ropes get worn in different ways, meaning friction is different from device to device, and rope to rope. I would use this fact to say that tests like this are a general guide, but experience, and knowledge are the most accurate in understanding which device will work most efficiently.
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marks
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Thanks for the feedback Ben.
Ya I agree. Other factors exist as well, like the amount of weight and the carabiner. The real problem is creating good solid tests that can be done in a realistic time period / budget. This is why we limited it down to two variables (rope diameter and belay device). Each combination needs to be done 10 times so we can make sure the data is consistent.
So let's say if we decide to add 20 more ropes, 10 weight amounts and 10 other carabiners. Now you're doing (12 belay devices * 10 tests * 23 ropes * 10 carabiners * 10 weights) 276,000 tests. That's why we make lots of the variables static (this test took 11 hours so you can imagine how long 276k tests would take).
I 100% agree. We haven't tested every combination and more than any other sport I've ever done, experience keeps you alive in climbing.
I think one realistic solution is to create independent tests which keep other elements static. For example you could keep the belay device, weight as well as the carabiner static and use different ropes with the same diameter. This would allow you to fairly reasonably determine how similar belay devices handle (or lack thereof) ropes of the same diameter. Therefore, we could use a series of micro tests (50-150 tests a piece) to pin point the variables which actually affect the situation.
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kikibatlubbin
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You've done great work but how about letting us download it and email it to our climbing friends?
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marks
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kikibatlubbin said:
You've done great work but how about letting us download it and email it to our climbing friends? |
Great idea. What would you like? PDFs or other formats?
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CapeTiger
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Have you testing a Kong Chuy? How good is it?
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marks
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CapeTiger said:
Have you testing a Kong Chuy? How good is it? |
No we haven't though that would be interesting. Kong makes some interesting products but sadly they are relatively rare in the US market.
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bentbwilliams
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Hey man, Thanks for all your hard work on this! I have been a guide for a few years and it's always nice to put some numbers behind those principles of friction I'm trying to describe. I was interested to see your value placed on weight and was wondering about the devices that offer more functionality with increased weight and if that affected the overall score. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to make this so available. We all owe you a catch;)
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marks
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bentbwilliams said:
Hey man, Thanks for all your hard work on this! I have been a guide for a few years and it's always nice to put some numbers behind those principles of friction I'm trying to describe. I was interested to see your value placed on weight and was wondering about the devices that offer more functionality with increased weight and if that affected the overall score. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to make this so available. We all owe you a catch;) |
Thanks for the feedback Bent. Be careful offering catches ... I'm always looking for them lol.
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extremist
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As usual I'm just finding this information. Again I am pleased and surprised that someone is making an effort to provide a basis or a baseline for people.
I first learned to belay with what we called a "Butt" belay. Many variations exist and surprisingly I still find use for this knowledge from time to time every now and again. No one else I know even considers using it. Climber from below the rope is above the butt and on top of the anchor biner. Climber above on lead the rope is below and under the belay biner. It always worked "butt" was often painful and burns did happen.
I am still using a Sticht Plate With Spring that I have had since the early 70's. In just one day I rappelled 3,000 feet and nearly wore a locking D in half. The plate however is still shiny and going strong. The only draw back has always been the spring which will get tangled at every opportunity. But, it allows for single hand use on rappels or lock offs. The spring will pop the device back off the rope allowing the climber to ascend or descend without having to use the free hand to hold the device off the locking biner.
I agree with the simplicity statement. K.I.S.S. I also have a sack full of every belay device known to man but I only use a couple of them. The aforementioned is one the "Beak" is the other. What works, works don't fix it!
Belaying is an art and I will climb with a good belayer long before I trust my life to the hardest of hardmen who think 10 feet of slack and a manky anchor will do. Thanks again for your efforts. I can't wait to find other tests on gear. -- ghd
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